“If not me, then who?”

Ye Zhang Pogue, a health policy researcher and writer, immigrated to the U.S. from China as a student in 2011. 

Pogue has been active in public policy discussions that affect the AAPI community. In 2017, Pogue spoke against MA’s proposed Data Equity Act, which would require state agencies to collect more detailed demographic data of the state residents —like national origins — to capture the diversity of the population. 

The provision faced both backlash and advocacy from members of the Asian American community. Supporters believe that it will help make the often marginalized ethnic subgroups more visible, making it easier to identify disparities in areas like health and education. Opponents worry about the abuse and misuse of such data. Some Chinese Americans in particular worry about being targeted at a time when the relationship between the US and Chinese governments can be fraught. Last year, the provision passed. 

For the third installment in our Q&A series celebrating the AAPI Heritage Month, LexObserver spoke with Pogue about her identity as a first-generation Asian American, her opposition to the data equity provision, and how she fulfilled her American dream through civic engagement. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity. 

LexObserver: You spoke against a bill that required the collection of Asian Americans’ national original data. Could you tell me more about this bill? 

Ye Zhang Pogue: I was a PhD student in 2017, just entirely a scholar in the ivory tower. Then a friend of mine reached out to me and said, “Hey, there is this bill, you are supposed to understand it.”

I researched the bill. My immediate thought is that the Chinese are so diverse. For me, the bill just sounded not right. Asking about national origin can be risky because the data can be used against people from certain countries. 

Then I embarked on this journey. Before that, I was not very good at persuasive writing. I have difficulty speaking in public using English. I have no idea about the legislature. 

In January 2017, I visited the Massachusetts State House for the first time. I protested for the first time in my life, holding signs, knocking on the doors of each legislator, talking to them, repeating the same thing. I repeated all my way to the Boston Globe, to debate with supporters. People don’t anticipate that an immigrant would do that. I did it anyway, and it was very challenging.

I heard a lot of people say things like, “No, we are first-generation immigrants, and we do not have political power.” Or, “We lack information about democracy, we can wait until our children grow up. They have good English. They know the country. They are American, and they will speak up for us.”

But I feel that’s a lie. We can do it. My English, as you can hear, has an accent. I made grammar errors. But the thing about the American dream is to not stop yourself from trying. If not me, then who? This country encourages you to say something. Maybe nobody hears it. Maybe it leads you to nowhere and sometimes even gets some insult. But I think it is a worthy experience in life.

LexObserver: How has this experience changed you? 

Ye Zhang Pogue: I didn’t think I was American at all before that, just a person living here. I used to believe I couldn’t do it. If you told me 10 years ago that one day you are going to speak out and make a testimony about something, I would have thought that you must be joking. But I realized I could be someone I never anticipated.

LexObserver: How did you overcome the initial fear of speaking out?

Ye Zhang Pogue: Just be shameless. My goal is to just go there and say what I’m ready to say. Broken English? People don’t understand? So be it. What else can I do? I cannot make them agree with me. But after you speak, there is a chance.

I do not have a kid yet, but I hope to. I hope I can tell the kid in the future that I did something when nobody anticipated that I would. I think I shall be an example for the kids. Don’t wait for the next generation to make the American dream come true.

LexObserver: What is your American dream and your understanding of it? 

Ye Zhang Pogue: One part is to be whoever you want to be. The other part is to feel you fully belong in the society. We get a lot of suspicion here and there because of the tension between China and America. But I still feel I belong because I tried my best to be productive in a civic engagement way.

I came to America as an international student. I never thought I was going to become a real American. That was my expectation: find a job, get a visa, stay here, and build a family. That is what most people anticipate. 

Then I realized there is a civic duty inside of the American dream. There is another element, which is being brave in this land of braveness and freedom. Because of this process, I read a lot of things about politics, understanding America, and one of the most divisive policies. Now I feel I’m part of society. 

LexObserver: You’ve been active in other public policy discussions that affect the AAPI community. Could you give us some examples?

Ye Zhang Pogue: There’s a lot of discussion about race. I don’t like the concept of race, because I know the history of how it was created. AAPI is a group of people from the whole continent, each with our own heritage. We should be proud of who we are, proud of being Chinese, Korean, or Indian, but that shouldn’t define us. I want my future children to feel that they are not defined by a concept. 

Four hundred years ago, this term race was used by white supremacists to justify slavery. We are put into a box, and that is never optimal. What matters is how you feel about yourself. We are friends for various causes, but we are not united by racial identity. We are united by who we want to be. 

I’m not a cultural critic, I just want to provide a different perspective. I am not a partisan person, and I get both attacked and praised by both sides. Now we are polarized. When you polarize, you always think the other side is the bad guy, and our side is the good guy. They are just people who have things I disagree with. When we stop seeing people as a label, as an ideology, I think we do better.

LexObserver: What progress have you seen and what needs improvement?

Ye Zhang Pogue: I see that at least among the Chinese Americans, especially immigrants, there is a higher voting rate. Also Chinese are taking a stand on many divisive issues.

LexObserver: What do you want the Lexington community to take away from this month? 

Ye Zhang Pogue: Take some time to talk to your kids, think about what being American is, and what it means to be an Asian American. I know it’s pretty philosophical but still a simple thing. Spend some time since we have designated time to think about our relationship with the country, right?